Tyler Joseph 和 Josh Dun 谈论他们如何在台上互相激励、互相补足，制作《Blurryface》所感受到的压力，《Tear In My Heart》的内在含义，以及平衡内在不安全感的永恒话题。
观看视频：土豆 / 优酷 / bilibili / YouTube
Josh Dun:
我的名字是 Joshua William Dun，在 Twitter 上面我叫 Spooky Jim。Spooky Jim 可以说是我的第二 – 可以说是，我的真身是在 Twitter 上面的 Spooky Jim，然后 Josh 只是我另外一个名字。我现在和我世界上最好的朋友 – Tyler Robert Joseph 在一个乐队里面。我们现在在洛杉矶。我们在华人街给我们的一首新歌《Tear In My Heart》拍一个音乐录影带。这儿的环境挺奇怪的，这里有些中国小店，中餐馆，以及一些挺传统的玩意。所以呢，我们在这当中演出，面对面坐着，旁边就有很多人在我们之间穿过、在我们前面走过，就好像我们不属于这儿，或者当我们根本不存在一样，就继续做着他们自己的事儿。但是，你知道吗，每天晚上有很多不同的人？挺有趣的是，我觉得有时候 Tyler 和我都会被他们吸引注意力我们在演出，然后我们看到有人在我们前面走过，我们就会看着他。有人看我们演出挺棒的，特别是在这样的国内的一块异域之地。这里的气氛和能量都完全不同。演出让人很开心，在一个露天广场拿出鼓槌来场演出也是我梦寐以求的。
这个片子拍了一会儿了。有些人就会从我们前面走过去，心想，这些小伙子在玩啥呀。我们就会说，不，不。其实呢，你根本 – 拍音乐录影带的鼓其实完全是没声的。你其实什么也听不见，或者至少音质很差，这挺有趣的。然后还有好些人会在我们中间走来走去。整条街清了一遍，也挺好玩的。而且你也不知道谁会突然走到镜头前面。还挺不赖的。所以，Tyler 和我已经是五六年的朋友了，我们俩的乐队已经有差不多四年了。我记得我们第一次见面时，我当时就知道，我想和这位老兄一起玩音乐。然后，我觉得自从咱们俩第一次出去玩，我们基本上每件事情上面的观点和做出的选择都完全在同一个频道上面。他想出的点子和我想出的点子，就是很搭吧。在舞台上面，因为只有我们两个人嘛，我就发现，我太需要去吸收他在舞台上面的能量了，我也觉得，他也很需要我传递的能量。我们两个有一种，你知道吗，很和谐的张力之类的，我每晚演出上都期待这种张力。面对面演出也增加了这种张力，也更好地吸收对方身上的能量。因为，怎么说呢？我用出我最大的力量来打鼓，同时看着他也很卖力地表演，这很开心。
我会说，写第二张专辑是件挺奇怪的事情，或者说是第二张公开发行的专辑，或者说是一张发布到平台而不是我们自费出版的那种专辑，在这个时间点上面，我就会感受到来自很多不同的人很高的期望：无论是来自我们的粉丝，他们一直支持着我们；包括我们的家人也同样，我们一直都让我们的家人喜欢我们乐队；以及我们的朋友们，我们想让他们喜欢上我们的音乐；以及工作上面和我们合作的伙伴，比如唱片公司之类的……我们会平衡这些不同方面上面的需求。还有电台，电台是挺吓人的一个话题。你才不想写出违背自己风格的音乐，为了要把你的歌推上电台；但有的时候，你需要找到歌词含义上面的一种平衡，让你的音乐能够登上电台，听众觉得很酷，他们喜欢在电台上面听到。但还是完全是我们自己的风格、并且完全是真诚的。
Tyler Joseph:
我不是 Josh Dun。我其实是 Tyler Joseph。我倒希望我是 Josh Dun 啦。- 你可以看着我录。- 你不想我看镜头？好……我不是 Josh Dun。我的想法是让我的未婚妻 Jenna 加入，因为这其实是我第一次写出一首关于爱情的歌。我会把这首歌描述成一首详细地描述爱恋之苦的恐怖的情歌。所以让她参与也就是顺理成章了。我想不出还能找上一个女演员谁来扮我的对象。而且再加上这么些年来我一直都在对 Josh 唱这些情歌，我也应该开始转移我的焦点了。
爱是一件吓人的事情。爱就是赌上你所拥有的一切去信任一个人，而她们随时可以决定毁掉这一切。而这是一种让人很难受的感觉。所以这首歌和这段影片可以说是记录了这之中的某些情感。而最后的结尾是，最终，正是我所恐惧已久的那件东西拯救了我。有许许多多的人在我们周围走着，而我并不认识他们，所以这让我感到有点不自然。但是我们习惯了在许多并不认识我们的人群面前演出，所以我们希望认为，这段影片是描绘了过去我们在对我们并不感冒的人群之前表演的那段经历。
大多数乐队的主唱，或者大多是乐队的成员，但尤其是乐队的头号人物，像是我在这个乐队里面希望达到的角色，那些伟大的主唱，他们一般不那么怎么有自我意识。而这正是他们的伟大之处，因为他们不知道自己是怎么做到的，但是他们也不关心自己是怎么做到的。而我是这样 – 我自我意识程度非常高。要成为头号人物，这样的性格太糟了。对我来说，我在演出时面临的挑战和大多数吃这行饭的人都不一样。我内心的斗争是，我知道我很棒，你知道吗？我知道我足够出色，但我必须得不停地提醒自己这一点，我才能够在别人面前保持投入和激情。所以这很难。我能够让别人觉得我很自信，我对我做的一切都有信心，我对自己没有怀疑，我在这方面确实做的挺不错，但我向你保证，这不是我脑中唯一的想法。你真的必须得让你自己相信，你喜欢你正在做的事情，而且只有你一个人喜欢。如果我去想是不是别的人也像我一样，这种想法只会让我很难在别人面前演出。
和 Josh 一起演出 – 我们俩一起演出已经有四年了 – 在不同的演出中有不同的舞台布置以及在台上，有一些时候，因为观众都是认识我们的人，他们为我们打气，我会感觉到身上有一种自然而然的自信的感觉，你知道，有粉丝在下面给你打气真的会帮到你很多 – 因为他们希望演出能够成功。也有一些时候，我会感觉观众不盼着我们好，他们想看我出丑，然后我就会感到有点喘不过气来，就会考虑太多事情。这时候，我就会看着 Josh 说，“我现在真的很需要你。”
Josh Dun:
我想说的是，如果有一天我们俩都完全克服了我们的危机感，就没什么乐趣了。我觉得，每天晚上当我们登上舞台时，我们知道还需要去斗争、克服、并最终战胜内心的焦虑，这才是一种乐趣。如果我去一场演唱会，当我看到一个艺人走上舞台，他战胜了内心所有的斗争和挑战，你是能看出来的。而且你会知道，这是他们日常所要经历的一种情绪。但是我觉得我们对我们所做的每件事情都很有信心，所以我觉得危机感不一定就必须得是不自信的代名词。但这之间会有个平衡 – 而且我觉得在台上 – 对我来说，在演出时，当我坐在后面打鼓，知道我的老兄 Tyler 就在旁边，他的存在让我感觉很自信。而且，我觉得我们有这个感觉。不过这不是说，我们两个就没有日常的内心斗争了。所以，这基本上就是平衡这两个方面，就是一边克服这些情绪，一边保留和约束我们的自信、我们创作的作品、我们所做成的事情、以及我们的音乐让人挪为己用以后感到的内心共鸣。每天晚上我睡觉和每天早上我醒来时，当我思考这一切对我们来说意味着什么、我们能做到什么、以及未来会发生什么时，各种各样的感觉给我带来一种很美妙的力量。
附：英文文本
my name is Joshua William Dun, also known as spooky Jim on Twitter. it’s like a alternate – it’s like my real personality is on Twitter spooky Jim, and then I got like my other name. I play in a band with my best friend in the whole world, Tyler Robert Joseph. and we’re in Los Angeles right now. we’re in Chinatown and shooting a music video for a new song of ours called Tear in My Heart. so we’re in a Chinatown in LA and it’s a kind of like in the center of – it’s actually kind of a crazy environment, and there’s like little Chinese markets and restaurants and all these like very traditional things. so we’re playing in the center of this thing, facing each other, and there’s kind of people walking all around kind of between us, and around us, and by us, and as if we kind of like really don’t belong there, or it’s almost like we don’t even exist in a way, so just kind of going about their lives. but it’s interesting that there’s the different people tonight you know – I think Tyler I both get easily distracted sometimes – we’ll just be playing kind of just watch somebody walk by, and just look at them. it’s fun that people watch. and especially in kind of like a foreign place that’s in your home. I guess. so it’s a really interesting atmosphere and vibe. it was just really fun to play, and I’ve always kind of wanted to pull out my drums and play in some public area.
a while, kind of like shooting this thing. some people would walk by and be like, what are these guys performing, and we’re like, no you can’t even – the way that my drums are for music video are actually like completely muted and silence too. you really can’t even hear anything or at least it just sounds really bad, which is interesting. but and then some people just kind of like walked in and walked through. just got people off the street, which was also fun. and you just don’t know who’s going to fuck up and walk through. but yeah, it was a cool experience.
so Tyler I’ve been friends for probably five or six years I think, and we’ve been playing together for like four years. and I remember the first time we ever met, I just I knew that I wanted to play music with that guy. and I think we’ve all like ever since we like hung out the first time, we just have like kind of been on the same exact page on everything and every decision, or whatever idea he comes up with or I come up with all it was just kind of like agree and so on stage just because it’s just two of us I find that I just like need I feed off his energy so much and I think he feeds off of mine and we kind of just like you know it’s a cool dynamic something that I look forward to every night when we play so getting to play kind of facing each other I think just actually kind of increases the energy and feeding off of each other a little bit more because this we’re just right there and it’s just like a I don’t know it’s a it’s really a entertaining and kind of fun for me to you know be just like hitting as hard as I can and watching him just go for it as hard as he can to and its own it’s fun
well I will say it’s a weird thing to write a second album or a second you know kind of public album or album that’s like kind of out there that’s on a platform that’s you know we didn’t kind of just put out ourselves and there’s at this point there’s I feel like a lot of expectation from many different kinds of people whether it’s fans that have kind of been around since the beginning including our families we always we always try and impress our families and our close friends or at least try and get them to hopefully like it or it’s people that that we work with on more of a professional level maybe a label or you know whatever that is and it in you know in some ways balancing the kind of wants from both of the different sides of things and then there’s also here like the whole concept of radio that’s just a scary concept and you never want to write something that you feel is not you because there’s this hope you know the idea or the conversation of putting a song on the radio but in some ways you want to be able to find a good medium of a song that maybe is good enough to go on the radio or people think is cool that they would want to play on the radio that’s still that’s still completely us and authentic exactly
I’m not Josh dun. I’m actually Tyler Joseph. wait you don’t want me looking at the camera do you? okay I’m not Josh Dun.
well the idea that I had was to involve my fiance Jenna, because truly this is the first time I’d ever written a song about love before. I would describe it as a kind of a gruesome love song with some moments that describe in detail the what’s tough about being in love. but so the idea of having her involved would just made sense. I couldn’t imagine having another like love interest actress girl doing it. and because plus I’ve been singing all these love songs to Josh for so many years now. it’s just like I gotta start to shift my focus.
love is a scary thing. it’s trusting someone with everything that you have and they could decide to crush it at any moment, and that’s a very uneasy feeling. and so the song and the video kind of document some of those emotions, and at the end there’s a resolution that ultimately that thing that I was afraid of for so long was the thing that saved me.
well there’s a lot of like people walking around and I don’t really know them and so it kind of like makes me uneasy. I guess but we’re used to performing in front of people who don’t know who we are so we like to think this video is kind of like a different version of us playing live back when we would play in front of people who thought we weren’t that interesting. most front men and most people in bands but specifically like a front man, like who I’m trying to be in this band, the great ones are not very self-aware. that’s what makes them great because they don’t really know how they’re coming across, but they also don’t care how they’re coming across. I would describe myself as extremely self-aware, which is a horrible character trait to have while trying to be a front man. for me I feel like getting up in front of people is a completely different battle for most people that do this for a living. it’s kind of this internal struggle of ‘I know I’m great, you know. I know that I’m good enough, but I have to I have to constantly be reminding myself of that, in order to pull off doing anything passionately in front of someone. so it’s tough. I think I do a pretty good job of giving off the impression that I’m confident, that I believe in everything I’m doing, and I’m sure of myself, but I promise you it’s not the only thing going through my head as it happens. you really have to just convince yourself that you like what it is you’re doing and only you like it. if I start wondering if other people like it, then it’s it only cripples my ability to perform in front of people.
you know performing with Josh – so we’ve been playing together for about four years – there’s certain settings in certain shows and things like you know getting up on stage. there’s certain times where I feel like there’s this natural confidence that comes over me, because of the audience being you know people who know us and are pulling for us there’s you know that helps a lot when you have your fans out there pulling for you. because ultimately they want it to work out. there sometimes I get this feeling of like the audience doesn’t want it to work out and that they want to see me fail. and I start feeling a little bit suffocated and kind of overthinking everything. and that’s when I looked at Josh, and I go, I really need you tonight.
I think what I will say is, I think that if if there ever came a point where we both completely overcame our insecurities, I don’t think this would be fun anymore. I think every night, going onstage, knowing that there’s something to battle and overcome and conquer, that’s what makes it fun. if I go and see somebody, an artist on stage who walks out, and it’s completely over all the all the crazy battles and challenges internally, it shows. and you can see that you know it’s kind of a just emotion that they go through, a routine. and I do think that we both also possess confidence in what we do, so I don’t think insecurity should necessarily be a code name for not confident or whatever. but there’s a balance, and I think that going out there – for me sitting behind my drums, and knowing that my dude Tyler’s over here makes me feel very confident in our show. and I think we both feel that way. but that doesn’t mean that there’s not internal battles going on constantly within both of us. so it’s kind of just, you know, it’s a balance of conquering those while holding on to our confidence and what we’ve created and what we’ve done and what these you know people have made it and bought into and resonated with. and it’s an amazing kind of whirlwind of different feelings every night or every day when I wake up and think about what this is or what this could be or what you know what could happen.
